Born on October 6, 1966, Dr. Muiz Adeyemi Banire, is one of the shining lights of his generation. Humble, humane and humorous, Banire is blessed on many sides. Politically, he’s been a Special Adviser to the Governor, a Commissioner for Special Duties, Transportation and Environment. Legally, he has a PhD in Law and only recently joined the ranks of the revered and respected Senior Advocates of Nigeria (SAN). Currently the National Legal Adviser to the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC), Banire is one of the beauties to behold from Mushin, a dreaded part of Lagos where we don’t get to hear too many pleasant things. Happily married to Funmilayo, they are blessed with four children – Muiz, Jnr., Mardyat, Malik and Maryam. An author and a teacher, a performer and a straight forward human being, YES INTERNATIONAL! Magazine Publisher/Editor-in-Chief, AZUH ARINZE, spent the evening of Tuesday, September 8, 2015 with him in his chambers (on Mobolaji Bank-Anthony Way, Ikeja, Lagos) – and together, they delved into his life and family, legal and political careers, and more. Enjoy…
What makes a good lawyer?
Well, that question is a bit vague, because in our profession, we have fundamentally two divisions – solicitorship and advocacy. So, it depends on which side of the divide you are referring to. For example, advocacy – what makes a good lawyer, first and foremost, is to be articulate and to be abreast of the law in terms of research and constant update of his knowledge. As a solicitor, you need to be skillful and also appear to be aware of the legal position of things when advising your clients or drafting documents for your clients. So, it depends on what side of the divide; but in Nigeria anyway, we combine the two unlike in England where you are either a solicitor or an advocate.
What got you interested in Law in the first instance?
Interestingly, I got interested in Law by way of let me say title. Because when I was young, when I was in primary school, I think late Chief Justice Fatai Williams used to be the Chief Justice of Nigeria and that title, Chief Justice, was an attraction to me. In fact, if I’m able to lay my hands on my primary school note books, you will find out that the prefix to all my names there will always be Chief Justice Muiz Adeyemi Banire, Chief Justice Muiz Adeyemi Banire…(laughing). So, from that moment, I became interested in saying me too I want to be Chief Justice, I want to be Chief Justice and somehow, along the line, I developed my interest further. Even my first admission when I finished secondary school, was to read Economics. But again, my late brother also played a part in insisting that no, why will you want to go and read Economics when you can settle for Law, because that Economics was to be in Louisiana State University, in the United States. In fact, my uncle had paid for everything – my school fees, boarding fees, everything. But my late brother insisted that no, it’s better for you to stay here and do Law. That was how eventually I ended up doing Law…
This your late brother, what’s his name?
Tunde Banire.
Now, what do you like most about being a lawyer?
Knowing the limits of your rights; let me put it that way. Because when you are a lawyer, you know the limit of what you can do and the problem with the society is when people don’t know the limit of what they can do. Yes!
So, what don’t you like about being a lawyer?
Is there anything I don’t like? (Thinks) Ha! There’s nothing o! There’s nothing I don’t like about being a lawyer. Nothing at all! In fact, as far as I’m concerned, it’s the ultimate for every human being. I believe everybody should be (a lawyer), because you must know your rights.
What is the greatest thing that being a lawyer has done for you?
The knowledge is one thing, the exposure, the decorum; even the mannerism and the nobility in the profession.
Being a lawyer, what has it not done for you?
It has not allowed me to be a freelance. When I say freelance; there’s a limit to what you can do as a lawyer. There are so many things that you cannot do, because they will qualify you as an unfit and improper person to belong to the legal profession. So, in that regard, you cannot do all those things that a lot of other people can do.
What is the greatest mistake that any lawyer can make?
The greatest mistake is to be lazy, because Law, I must confess to you, is very, very…(tough). Particularly advocacy. It’s a very, very evolving profession and you have to be constantly abreast of development, which means that you have to be highly industrious and committed to continuous research. So, once you ignore that aspect, honestly, you are automatically out and you will get embarrassed always in court.
Which is the most memorable case that you have handled and why?
Interestingly, when you said memorable, a very funny case; not a high-profile case came to my mind. But I will never forget that case and I will tell you why. I handled it when I was a youth corper in Ota Division (in Ogun State) No, I just finished NYSC and was doing my Masters and there used to be a course called Sentencing and Treatment of Offenders in UNILAG, Faculty of Law and also Comparative Criminal Law and Procedure. What we do essentially there is to find out the origin of a particular position. For example, thou shall not steal; if you steal, this is the penalty and all those one. Where did it originate from? How did it get to Nigeria? It probably originated from India, passed through England to Australia; from Australia came to Nigeria. So, you will now trace the origin, look at the way they have interpreted the provisions in other jurisdictions and ultimately in Nigeria, how we should interprete it also. So, there was this case then that I was meant to be defending an accused person. Now! The man stole a goat, but he didn’t steal the goat of an ordinary person. He stole the goat of the DPO (general laughter). Divisional Police Officer for that area. They brought him to court. Anyway, we managed to get him bail. It would have been best if the man had decided to now restrict himself and behave himself from that moment. You know what the man did again? The man jumped bail and ran away (laughter). So, they started looking for him. Ultimately, they got him and brought him back to court. Now, you can imagine the burden or the challenge ahead of a lawyer defending that kind of character. Anyway, we went ahead with the trial, did everything, then when we came to the address; there’s something we call the address, in which you sum up your case, using the facts and the cases of authorities to illustrate to the Judge why the law should not be applicable and why you want to distinguish that particular fact from the fact of the authorities or other cases that had been decided. So, what I did was that I just took the provision, took the origin, traced it from where it originated from, all the various jurisdictions, countries that it passed through, to Nigeria and how in each jurisdiction they had interpreted it. The thing became something like an epistle before the Magistrate.
I’m sure when the Magistrate saw the thing and the number of pages, how voluminous it looked and the various theories and books sited; from Australia to India, India to Canada, that I was referring to, the Magistrate must have said this horrible man, which one do I take now? So, when we got to court on the day of judgment, when the Magistrate was reading the judgement, I was looking at him. Anyway, at the end of it, he just said okay, the accused is hereby discharged! Cautioned and discharged! (general laughter). So, I started laughing; that look, obviously, somehow I must have intimidated him successfully with all those authorities from all the other jurisdictions. The man, I’m sure must have said this man is an authority, he knows what he’s saying…So, it’s better I give judgment to this one and let him go with his wahala.
Can you recollect the most memorable case that you have lost?
Memorable case that I’ve lost? (Thinks) It was the case involving our party then, ACN (Action Congress of Nigeria) in respect of the governorship poll in Kogi State, involving Audu Abubakar. We were not aware of the practice direction that we must file our notice of appeal within a particular day. Anyway, we filed, I think on the 16th day. But we ought to have filed within 15 days. Nobody was aware; not even the opposing lawyers. Everybody had filed their appeal, all the papers we needed to file. The day we were to argue, I think that morning, these people, because they later told us, our colleagues on the other side, stumbled on that. They told us that it was somebody that brought it to their attention that morning to say, look o, there is a practice direction that says you must file within 15 days; they have exceeded 15 days. So, they filed what we call a preliminary objection to the suit. Now, again, we felt comfortable or we quickly arranged what we call a motion for extension of time to regularize our paper. When we did that one, we now filed …because the Supreme Court, under their rules and the acts setting them up, has the power to extend time and regularize that thing. We now got to court, they raised the objection. We said we have a motion, we wanted to argue the motion. Then, somehow, the appeal was to elapse in 3 days’ time. Maybe their Lordships weren’t so much disposed; I don’t know why or they wanted to tow the positivist stance on that issue. So, what they did was to say no! As far as they were concerned, this practice direction was made pursuant to the constitution and since it was made in furtherance of the provision of the constitution, it enjoys the same status and as such there’s no provision inside that practice direction for extension of time. So, as far as we are concerned, your notice of appeal, which is the foundation of our case, is incompetent. And once it is incompetent, you have no case again. That was how they struck out the entire thing. Very painful! We felt like crying, because we had put in so much into the case. There were so many issues we had raised in our brief and our notice of appeal. We were actually waiting for pronouncement from them. So, we never got to cross that bridge. But the good news is that a month thereafter, I now fell on the other side also. Somebody else now went outside by one day (laughs) and I was just enjoying myself. I was just laughing. Yes! It serves them right now. Let’s see how this man will survive today. Ultimately, again, they couldn’t change their position. So, they ruled in my favour. In fact, some of the people that saw the latter judgement, because it was the latter one that was publicized, through the Law Report; people were saying what kind of stupid argument did you go and advance in that place, what kind of rubbish is that? But I said it’s not me…
Anytime you lose a case, how do you feel?
We have not really lost so much in this chamber. Our casualty rate somehow will be less than or about 1 percent of all the matters we’ve handled. And in most cases we will always know – we would have told the client, this your matter is not that meritorious. Except the client insists that okay, let me take a gamble… But in most cases, when we look at the case, we evaluate, we tell you it’s not likely that you succeed, it’s better you try and settle this matter out of court.
Each time you win a case, how do you feel?
Honestly, for now, I don’t feel anyhow, I don’t even get excited. I believe it’s the normal thing for me to do. I’ve done my case, I’ve moved on. In fact, if there’s anything that I think about immediately, it’s the balance (laughter). The balance of my fee. That’s the thing that comes to me.
We have quite a number of lawyers who are poor, why do you think this is so?
So many factors. But for me, I do not believe that the capacity to do anything successfully or otherwise belongs to any human being. So, you must leave first and foremost that gap of divine intervention in anything. That’s one aspect of it. Because we have some lawyers that are not as industrious as some other ones and they are successful. And there are some that are extremely industrious and they are not seemingly successful. So, God has a role to play in this matter. But beyond God’s own, the divine aspect of it, there’s the aspect of industry. You just must be industrious. Some are lazy, some want short cuts to everything. And for me, there’s no short cut to success. Honestly, there’s none! You just must do the proper thing and be industrious, be competent in what you are doing. Be passionate about what you are doing. So, for me, some of them is as a result of laziness, indolence, tardiness at times. Then, some – ignorance, over-ambition at times, which will becloud your ability to be able to see things correctly. These are some of the factors.
Some people attain success in the legal profession, but they are not able to sustain it, where do you think they normally get it wrong? Where do they go astray?
Because some relax! For example, this our rank of Senior Advocate, at times, if you are not careful, immediately you attain it, which is supposed to be the zenith of our own career, once you get there, at times, some people relax. Whereas for those who see correctly or those who perceive things correctly, I will say that it is the beginning of the challenge for you. Because at that moment, you are expected to be able to do the extraordinary things. In other words, your knowledge must be so robust than an ordinary lawyer’s. So, it throws further challenge on you and it’s that aspect of relaxation that usually causes the crash of some.
Now that you have talked about SAN, how does it feel to become a Senior Advocate of Nigeria?
For me, I must say that I’m grateful to God substantially. Extremely grateful to God. In fact, getting the honour or the privilege is not even the ultimate for me. It’s not what I cherish most. What I cherish most is the spiritual message or the spiritual content of the conferment. From my own perspective, this conferment should have come about 7 years ago, but it didn’t. But on each occasion that I wasn’t privileged to be part of the people announced, what I did, particularly that very day they make the announcement, is to go back to God and thank my God profusely; that there must be reasons why this time I wasn’t successful and the caveat is always that God, I believe that you will allow it to happen at the most opportune time for me. That has been consistently my prayer and I tell you, there could have been no better time than now that God has made it to happen. And that is one thing that I’ve been trying to use to admonish some of my colleagues and friends generally about life, that look, whatever we are aspiring to or we are looking forward to, if we don’t get it, we should continuously thank God and be telling God to give us at the best time that it will befit us and that is the aspect that I’ve seen here. Beyond that one, honestly, I must equally extend my gratitude to members of the Legal Practitioners Privileges Committee, because it’s a privilege for finding one worthy of the honour, because, of course, several of us applied this time. We went through not less than six stages of filtration and even at the final level, we were 50 in number and ultimately I think they gave 21 or 33 of us. So, for me to have been found worthy of it, one must also appreciate them.
What is going to change about you now that you have become a Senior Advocate of Nigeria?
For me, nothing, really! In fact, the only thing that will change, which I will say I don’t cherish so much…the further challenge that the thing is throwing up, because you are now somehow a leader of the Bar. The expectation is very high; much higher than what it used to be. You must demonstrate at all times excellence. And you know what it means to attain it (laughter). For me, excellence even belongs to God. But you must be above board at all times and wherever you find yourself to demonstrate that excellence and that is a major challenge. Now, I’m leaving the outer bar; outer bar used to be my constituency, where we, I will say the aggressors, used to be (laughter). When we see the Senior Advocates, members of the inner bar, we used to see them as oppressors. We were the I no go gree people. But now, I’ve left the I no go gree; I’m on the other side now. So, they will be looking at me too and saying let’s see what he will even say. So, that’s another challenge for you, and you have to thread cautiously now.
What are your plans as a Senior Advocate?
My plans? Well, as a Senior Advocate, it is to continue to contribute substantially to the development of not only the law, but also the development of the legal profession itself. For example, I believe that the aspect of discipline and upholding our etiquette, we must work assiduously towards ensuring that all of us as legal practitioners respect our rules of professional conduct. That’s No. 1. Of course, there are other areas that I also believe that I must seriously contribute to – like writing, in the promotion and development of the law. By extention, that one, there’s a plan I have, which I don’t know whether I should disclose now, because I don’t want somebody else to steal it. I want to still reserve the copyright, but we are going to see it, God willing, by the first quarter of next year when it will materialize and I think it will be a major boost to the profession.
When eventually your name was announced after applying for years, how did you feel, what was the first thing you did?
I thanked God o! I went home, because I was in the office. I left the office immediately and I went home to thank God for the first 30 minutes. Then, that very day, I left again for Saudi Arabia to further go and thank God and throughout the Ramadan, the fasting period.
At some point, you abandoned your teaching profession to go into politics. Do you have any regrets for doing that?
To be candid, I don’t have at all. However, I still treasure teaching. But why I haven’t missed it so much is because I still publish a lot. I publish books, I deliver lecturers regularly. So, to that extent, I’ve not really missed so much, rather than not being in a formal classroom. But it’s a profession that I enjoy and I love.
What do you miss most about not teaching or lecturing – you used to do that at UNILAG?
The ability to impart knowledge in a lot of people, dealing directly with them and one of the courses I was teaching before I left UNILAG, a lot of lawyers will tell you that it is a very dry course. But I enjoyed it. There’s a way I put it and I made it so dramatic.
What course was that?
Law of Trust. So, that aspect, I still believe that I can contribute substantially. In fact, I published a book which they were using before. But it’s almost 15 years now. Just yesterday, if you go into my inner office, I’m trying to do the second edition and to update it.
You also left politics at some point to face your legal career. What do you miss about politics?
You know my position has always been that I’m not a professional politician; I’m a professional in politics. So, for me, politics is secondary. Primarily, it’s my profession…
What are the things you miss about politics?
No, I don’t miss anything o! I miss nothing! Nothing! Honestly, nothing!
You have been a Special Adviser, a three-time Commissioner – for Special Duties, Transportation and Environment. What are the things you miss about that?
The only thing I miss, with all sense of humility, is the ability to positively impact on the people, because somehow, I believe that some of us are just gifted in that kind of thing, when it comes to good governance; that we can impact on people, we can feel them, we can provide solutions to them, we can do diagnosis and also put in place prognosis for them. All those things are things that just come naturally to us. When we see a challenge in governance, we can proceed and we can easily sit down and map out solutions and in most cases it has always worked positively in favour of the masses and the people at large. So, that’s the aspect that I’m missing and the only way that I’m feeling strongly that I must bridge it now is to start writing opinions on some of these issues and sending them to the relevant people that are there now.
With the benefit of hindsight, what would you say makes a good politician?
I think the major challenge I have with politicians generally is that perception and belief that they have – that you must play dirty. I don’t believe so. I think that it must be something honourable. What is lacking substantially in my own view is honour. They don’t cherish it at all. Nobility is not in their dictionary. Some of them don’t even feel horrible when they lie or when they are dishonest or when they manipulate or manoeuver. For me, it’s not an option at all. I can’t tolerate it, I can’t even accommodate it. You tell me something now and you go outside there and do something else. From that moment, I don’t regard you again. You are not a man of honour and I don’t deal with people that are dishonourable. That is the major challenge I have. What I’ve been telling people is that more honourable people must move into politics so that we can overwhelm them. For me, I believe that there is a comfortable majority of dishonourable people in the system. So, you need to dilute them. If possible, overwhelm them with better people and that is why for me, I think it was Artistotle or one of the philosophers that said it; all it takes for a nation to become extinct is for the good people there to keep quiet. I think when you see things that are wrong, you must voice it out, no matter whose ox is gored. You must say the right thing, do the proper thing. Particularly when I know, honestly, that anything in life, all good things in life belong to God exclusively. For example, look at the foundation now – who controls the power of life and death? It is Him! And that is the foundation of everything. Every other one is built on that. So, why can’t you tell the truth? Why can’t you be honourable? Why can’t you do the proper thing? Why can’t you be honest, be truthful?
What is the commonest mistake that most politicians make?
The fundamental mistake that they make is believing in human beings. That is the fundamental mistake of most politicians – believing in human beings. For example, some will say to me, ah, you know oga, it is you that I believe in o, that can make this thing happen. I will now look at the stupid man and say me that is still struggling that God should answer my own; you want me to answer your own (laughter). They tend to forget God easily in their affairs, and that’s my challenge with them, and it’s a fundamental thing. Rather than them, first and foremost, placing whatever ambition they have in the hand of God and consulting human beings, they prefer to believe in human beings and putting God as secondary. That is the fundamental vice that I have seen in most politicians.
Will you still come back to politics or you are going to face Law squarely now that you’ve been made a Senior Advocate?
Like I said to you, I’ve never been out of politics. The kind of politics that I play is different from the basic perception of politics. I said I’m a professional in politics. I’m interested in good governance. You can’t be interested in good governance without being in politics. It’s like a boxer being outside the ring. You must be within. We must be struggling together towards the enthronement of that good governance. That aspect, I’m interested in. But when it comes to say I must go and occupy a political position, contest, no, no, no. That one, you must count me out. It’s not my priority at all.
But some people are saying and insisting that you are good and capable and qualified and even experienced to govern Lagos?
For me, one, if God ordains it, I can’t run away from it. But within human perception, I tell you, for now, it’s not that attractive to me. And I tell you this – the simplest aspect of it that makes it unattractive is the stigma of being a thief. There’s a presumption in every public officer’s disfavor that you are a thief. Once you are in public office, the presumption is that you are a thief, he’s going there to steal or he’s stealing our money. So, why will I put myself in that kind of situation? Even, if you escalate it further, to international level, once they know that you are a politically exposed person, you are in trouble. Every transaction you want to do, they have to investigate it to the last. Like I used to tell a lot of people, when I was in government, common mortgage or foreign account, I can’t operate. My colleagues of even lesser status in my profession will wake up and buy a house directly, operate any account, do any transaction internationally, nobody will go and be looking for them all over the place. But me, once they see the name there, ah, Banire, politician, Commissioner. Ah! Where did he get £10,000 from? You see, that’s the challenge. So, that stigma is enough disincentive for somebody like me.
People believe that you are one of the strongest politicians in Lagos, are they correct?
Well, it depends on the angle they are coming from. Maybe to the extent that I have close affinity with the leadership, they will believe so. But some also will look at it from another aspect to say that look, that guy has served in government for three terms and virtually everybody defers to him. So, he must be a very powerful man. That’s another way. But for me and as far as I’m concerned, I’m like any other person there; in that system. The only thing, by way of humility, that I can say, is that I believe my word must be my bond always. When I say something, they must meet it that way.
Away from work, what does Dr. Banire do for relaxation? What are your hobbies?
I’ve not been able to define that one at all. What I will even say is maybe reading. In contemporary period, reading religious books. I think there’s one of them there (points to a book on his table) – Golden Stories of Accepted Prayers. I enjoy religious books because they give me what I consider to be peace of mind. In fact, this book explains everything about life; that I need not struggle for all these things that people are struggling over. So, that’s what I enjoy doing now. Once I’m less busy and I want to relax, I pick one of them. I have loads of them, I buy them regularly and have loads of them in my library.
How much of a family man is Dr. Muiz Adeyemi Banire?
I struggle to ensure that I am a very, very good family man. I struggle and I struggle and I struggle. In short, to a large extent, my immediate family appreciates me…
Can we meet your family?
My wife, Mrs. Funmi Banire. The children, they are four – Muiz, Jnr., Malik, Mardyat and Maryam.
It’s obvious that God has been nice to you, what more do you want from Him?
Ability to continue to impact positively. No, continuous ability to continue to impact on people – make them laugh, put smile on their faces. Like one of my children, Malik, will always pray: God, make everybody in this world to be rich (laughter). And I agree with him. Each time we are doing our Asalatu, that has always been his own prayer – God, make everybody on this earth to be rich!
As a Lagosian and as a stakeholder in Lagos State and in Lagos politics, what is your general assessment of what is currently going on in Lagos?
As at today, like a lot of people will tell you, it’s premature to asses, and the reason is simple – the current governor is doing a lot of major restructuring; to the extent that even now as I’m talking to you, I cannot tell you that this is the number of ministries that will eventually come to stay in Lagos. So, you cannot really asses him now until you see the clearer picture – how many ministries do you have, what are the briefs of those ministries, then you start benchmarking them. But for now, everything is fluid. Yeah!
People, till date, still remember you for changing the face of Oshodi during your tenure as a Commissioner, for introducing LASTMA, traffic lights, making the state ‘greeny’ and things like that. What fond memories of all those good works that you did when you were in government do you still carry with you? And how do you feel when you see some of these good works today?
Every one of them, I enjoy and I’m always happy. But where I feel that they are not sustained, I feel ashamed, that look, we as a people, why can’t we sustain this thing?
Is there a specific one that you would like to mention?
For example, in recent times, I’ve been trying to link up with the governor (Mr. Akinwunmi Ambode) that there is a need to improve the maintenance of the various greens we have in the state. It’s very, very important. Then, of course, Oshodi. I’ve seen that they have re-visited it recently, trying to sort it out. Again, that has to be sustained. The traffic light also, there’s a way that it can best be done. I’ve seen some of them that the bulbs are dead and they need to (be replaced) because you see, the truth of the matter is that there are some ingenious ways of dealing with all those things. I will give you an example. For traffic light, when I was Commissioner for Transportation, I wouldn’t rely exclusively on the bureaucracy. What I did then was to get some boys, because then we had about 50 or thereabout. I got two guys permanently. I bought motor bikes for them, I put the bulbs in their bags. And I said, your own job is to cover island; you cover the mainland. Your job is to go round them, at least, three times daily. Everywhere you find that the bulb is dead, you unscrew and replace. How much was I paying them then? Maybe N10 or N15,000. Now, like we did then, engage four, five men, give them bikes, the bulbs that are dead, take them out and replace. Simple! I used to tell the story; I said when I came to Transportation, years prior to my assumption of the Office of the Honourable Commissioner then, no traffic light was working in Lagos State. In fact, when I wanted to start, a lot of people strenuously tried to discourage me – oga, it will not work, where are we going to get light? I said no, I’m going to go ahead. The first set that I did, I balkanized some to repair some. They said em, where are we going to get light? I said don’t worry, I will get light. For most of those intersections, there will always be one or two offices that will run 12-hours generator a day. This thing doesn’t consume much. We can discount their tax returns for them by saying let’s link up those traffic lights to you or any eatery around that place and that was how we started. Today, the thing is all over the place. Same thing, I remember when I took over the issue of water transportation. Then, we had what I usually describe as one and a half ferries working, out of ten. But before I left, eight were working. Because the first thing I told those people was to call all of them; called the junior workers, the union. I said you people, you were 314 staff as at the time ten boats were working. Now, we have one and a half working and you are still 314. Were it to be your own business, will you still maintain 314 staff? They said ah, oga noo! I said okay, go and think about it, because I’m thinking also. When they heard that, the next day, the union came and said oga, don’t mind our management, we can repair those things ourselves with little, little money. I said go and bring the proposal. They brought it; it was something within my running cost in my office as a Commissioner. I gave those young guys the money. That was how we revived it o! Because they didn’t want to go and I told them your tenure of office is tied to those boats. Once they are dead, you are dead too! It’s as simple as that. It’s logic. That was how some of these things happened. Yes!