Apostle Anselm Madubuko, the General Overseer and Founder of Revival Assembly Church (with headquarters in Ogba, Ikeja, Lagos) is so, so unassuming. Ever accesible and always at peace with himself and others, YES INTERNATIONAL! Magazine Publisher/Editor-in-Chief, AZUH ARINZE, got the preacher par excellence to grant yet another indepth interview on Tuesday, May 12, 2015. This was inside his beautiful office at RAC. Madubuko, from Orsumoghu in Ihiala, Anambra State, spoke on quite a number of pertinent issues. The architect turned preacher who trained at the University of Nigeria (Enugu Campus) and started his life as a DJ (yes, disc jockey) also has an advice for Nigeria’s new President, Muhammadu Buhari. Enjoy…
What has been happening to Apostle Anselm Madubuko?
Doing the work of his master…
What are the new things happening in the church, in your life, in the ministry and generally?
Well, just doing the work He called me to do, travelling the nations, getting ready for our revival programme, Azusa in July…
Yeah! We are still going to come to that. But on Sunday, May 10, 2015, you became a grandfather. How does it feel to be a grandfather?
(Laughs) – I’m still waiting for the feeling (More laughter). I’m still waiting for the feeling; but I’ve been so happy. I’m so thankful to God for the way the Lord brought the baby, no problems, on a Sunday. Everybody was home, she’s in America…
Where in America?
Arlington; and you know, it was a very peaceful delivery. I thank God for that.
What was your first reaction when you got the news?
When I came to church in the morning, I got a text that they were on their way to the hospital. I didn’t know how I was gonna preach (Laughing). So, what I did was, I just called some people to help me to intercede, to be in prayer while the service was on; to pray for her and after the service, we got the news much later.
Have you chosen a name yet for the child?
I will call her Deborah.
Why Deborah?
From the Bible – Deborah. My prayer is that she will be a woman of God, a woman that fears God, a woman that loves God.
Between July 22 and 26, you are going to have the 2015 edition of Azusa. What should people expect this time?
Azusa is like a preparation for the revival. We have been trusting God for an outpouring of God’s revival and this will be the 13th edition of Azusa and as usual, we are just trusting God to be present. God’s presence always makes the difference in the life of everybody – in homes, in businesses, in marriages. His presence is what we are coveting.
Who are the ministers and gospel artistes coming this year?
I have my dear friend from Mombasa (Kenya), Wilfred Lai and another son from South Africa, Apostle Howard. Then, I will have Chioma Jesus, I will have Frank Edwards, I will have Eben. I have many, many people. We are trusting God for so many things and again, like I said, we are coveting His presence.
Other than the ministers and the gospel aristes we are having this time, what else will be the different between this year’s Azusa and the previous ones?
Well, everything about God is…He’s new everyday and He’s different every day. We are just depending on the fact that God’s blessings are new.
You are one of the few pastors who have been around for a long time. What would you say has kept you going?
It’s just the grace of God. I’m not in a hurry, I’m not in a hurry at all! I don’t envy nobody, I dont wanna be like anybody, I’m just satisfied doing what He has called me to do and that has kept me.
What is the biggest mistake that any pastor can make?
It’s to be in a hurry, it’s to be in a hurry. When you are in a hurry, you can do anything. And so many pastors have gone into the occult because they are in a hurry. They want crowd, they want money, they want fame and unfortunately, that’s what is happening in the Body of Christ now.
What is the wisest decision that any pastor who wants to be around for a long time can take?
Follow God! Follow God. Don’t follow anybody. Let your business be with God, let God be the one to send you. Don’t do things because others are doing it.
What do you like best about being a pastor?
Touching people. My heart is with people. I love to see people turn around for God, I like to see people who never used to believe in God, who never believed in Jesus, accept Jesus and have Jesus change their lives. I love to see lives touched. That’s my passion.
What don’t you like about being a pastor?
I don’t know yet (Laughing). I’ve been a pastor for 25 years. I don’t know yet.
What is the greatest thing that God has done for you?
Ha! There are so many things. I can’t say one, I cannot pin-point, because they are so many! So many good things. But I think being alive is just the best.
What is the worst thing that God has done to you?
The worst thing is not to speak to me at times…
So, how do you wriggle out of such situations (His refusing to speak to you) and is it usually as a result of what you have done, sin or because He’s not just interested in your matter at that point in time?
Well, He’s God. I can’t tell why, I can’t tell why. It’s up to Him to choose to do what He wants to do, the way He wants to do it.
Anytime you ask God for a favour and He refuses, how do you feel?
I know He has something better.
What is the best way to extricate one’s self from the bondage of sin? What is the best way to run away from sin?
Be close to God. The way out of sin is to be close to God. When you are close to God, it’s hard to sin. That’s the truth. When you have the love of God and the fear of God, it’s hard to sin. That’s when the flesh is subdued. The flesh is the greatest enemy we have and when you can subdue the flesh, then you gain God.
Why do we still have an avalanche of sinners in spite of the fact that we have too many churches around? Is it that the pastors are not doing enough or they are not preaching what can get people to repent?
That could be it. But again, people just love sin. Jesus said you love darkness more than light. People are selfish, people have refused to kill the flesh and they’ve chosen to just live in sin and enjoy sin. The Bible calls it the pleasures of sin. Sin is enjoyable, but sin kills.
Often times, we get to read about renowned pastors who do things they are not supposed to do. Any time a supposed man of God messes up, how do you feel?
Nobody is above mistake. Nobody! Even the so called clergy, men of God. They are still human beings. So, we have to understand that.
Some people have also said that ideally pastors are supposed to be apolitical. But during the last elections, we saw some pastors taking sides, supporting some candidates and even parties. What is your take on that?
Again, pastors are human beings. It’s not easy to be apolitical. It’s not easy. You must have a soft spot for somebody. But at the same time, we are like fathers and in our congregations there are people from all parties. I don’t think it will be right for us to side one party. I don’t think so.
During the elections, you were one of the top pastors who never said anything, at least openly. Was it deliberate or you just chose to ignore them?
We all knew how it was gonna turn out. We all knew. But there was no need pointing, flogging it. It was good to just watch as the times rolled by.
What is your take on this – some pastors said Buhari will win and they got it right; some said Jonathan will win and they got it wrong? Those who got it wrong, was it that they were not hearing from God or what?
They heard the wrong voice (Laughing). I’ve told them to note that voice and to know that that’s not God’s voice…
So, what is the best way to hear from God, what is the best way to identify God’s voice?
Yeah! It’s like how can you describe Azuh’s voice? There has to be some intimacy with God for you to know that He’s the one speaking, and all the time, whatever He says must be in line with His word. God cannot say what is not in His word, for instance. He speaks to us through His word. That is the surest way. The surest way to hear God is via His word.
What’s your advise to the in-coming President, Muhammadu Buhari?
Buhari should father Nigeria. He has been called to father Nigeria; not APC (All Progressives Congress), not the North. He’s been called to father Nigeria and fix this country. And God will help him do that.
What are the things he must avoid, lest he incurs God’s wrath?
When he fails to father; you know what it means to father, when he fails to father Nigeria, he will start to fail.
What is the nicest thing about being the servant of the Most High God?
That God is your boss. He pays you, he takes care of you. I have no other job. I live by faith. He’s my boss, He’s my source.
What kind of person is God, because the atheists believe that God does not exist?
God is love. The greatest kind of love that is hard to express and explain is God. Some people preach God and you think God is one wicked man who hates to see you happy, who wants to kill your joy. No! God is merciful, God is love, God is kind, God is good. When He has told you that all things work together for good, you know what it means? All things… You lost your sister (Azuh Augusta) a few weeks ago, but all things still work together for good. I’m not saying it’s a good thing to have lost your sister, but God knew why He allowed it. So, that’s the kind of person God is. You can never go wrong with Him.
Is God a man or a woman?
He is a being, so whatever…If you want to see Him as man, you see Him as man (Laughing)… But He calls himself in the masculine. At times also He refers to Himself as a She.
Now, who is a good pastor?
A good pastor is one who is loyal to his vision. Yeah! A good pastor, a successful pastor is one who is doing what he’s been called to do.
What makes a successful ministry, at least you’ve been doing this now for over 20 years, which is not easy?
Just following Him. Following the pattern He has laid and making sure that you are the same with Him.
The pastors who lose it at some point, what normally goes wrong?
I told you – most times they look at other pastors. Oyedepo has built a university, I’m going to build my own university (Laughs). Oh, this person has done this, I’m gonna do my own. This person has built a 100,000 – seater, I’m gonna build my own. You know, such things are the things that pastors must avoid.
What distinguishes Apostle Anselm Madubuko from the other preachers?
We are all the same. I’m just a simple person. Like I said, I don’t have any pressure, I’m not in a hurry, I love the Lord, I love people…
Have you ever doubted the call of God upon your life? Have you ever felt like am I really called to do this?
That was in the beginning, but not any more.
What led to that at that time?
At times when you see some negative reactions. I’m talking about over 20 years ago. You wonder when you go through some betrayals and some things; you wonder what am I doing here? Is this really for real? Can people really be like this? Am I really called to do this? But then after a while you will understand that this is what you’ve been called to do, this is what you are born for. I mean, I read Architecture. But I don’t think I can imagine myself doing the job of an architect now. I don’t think so. This is what I’m born for.
When did you come to the realisation of the fact that you have succeeded as a pastor?
I’ve not succeeded yet; I am still in the process (General laughter). I’m still in the process. And the Lord tells me that the ministry has not even started. You can imagine that!
In the ministry, most people attain success, but they are not able to sustain it. What usually causes this?
It depends on what you call success…
Okay! Revival Assembly is a success having been there for over 20 years and still doing great. Success as in being able to start something and sustain it for 10 years, 20 years, 25 years. It’s no child’s play…
Yeah! I think basically this is about God. God doesn’t act like men and we are not supposed to do it like men. We are supposed to do it like God. Growth is in the hands of God. There’s nothing you can do about that. People that use things to make their churches grow are wrong. We are not supposed to do that. Growth is in the hands of God and everything is in the hands of God. So, we have to just know that hey, this is God’s business, this is God’s ministry and I will not help God. I will not go plant a tree, or go and get something else, sprinkle some water or do something on the altar or bury something somewhere to bring people to the church. No! God brings the people He wants you to touch at any particular time and that’s one thing you have to have on the inside. When we have that, the will of God follows.
What’s the worst thing you’ve heard about yourself since you became a pastor?
I don’t even hear those things any more (General laughter). I don’t hear any more.
How about the nicest thing?
Your word has changed my life, the word of God from your mouth has changed my life.
What excites you the most about being in constant touch with God?
God gives you peace. God gives you peace. The peace of God passes all understanding and I think that is the greatest thing that God can give to any one. Satisfaction and contentment. I am a content man, I’m so content with God, I’m so satisfied with God. I’m not talking in terms of knowing Him; I want to know Him more. But with what He has given me, with what He has done with me, I thank Him.
What is the next level for Revival Assembly?
The next level is to keep doing what we are doing. There’s no next level. He’s ever present here…
Who is your favourite Biblical person or personality?
King David!
Why King David?
God called him a man after my heart. He didn’t want the hand of God, he wanted the heart of God. And he was a worshipper, he was a warrior, he was a king, he was a poet, he was a psalmist and he was great.
Which is your favourite Bible quote?
I have many, I have many…For God so loved the world…It’s so sweet. I mean, it’s surreal. You see the love of God everywhere. You wonder; even people who don’t even know Him, He loves them; people who even deny Him, people who don’t even believe in the existence of God, He has blessed them and that is so sweet. For God so loved the world, He gave His best, His only begotten Son.
It’s obvious that God has been so good to you, what more do you want from Him?
Well, I just thank Him. Let Him give us long life, so we can do more and reach more people and affect more nations for the kingdom of God.
You lost your wife, Pastor Connie years back. How are you doing now in your new marriage (to Emmy Kosgei, from Kenya)…
Yes, God gave me a wonderful replacement or I should say a wonderful gift. He has given me so much peace, He’s been wonderful and I thank God.